I’ve seen the new Kia Sportage in person. I’ve also seen the new Hyundai Tucson up close. Both show the companies’ latest take in a series of outrageous designs that are meant to win over consumers.
And the plan is a success. Except when the two companies decide to do it all over again instead of perfecting an already good thing. Suddenly, consumers are unfamiliar with the latest models before realizing, “oh, that’s a Sportage.”
In the interest of full disclosure, the author sells cars for a competing brand. His opinion, however, is sincere and unrelated to his sales role.
The Hyundai Sonata that debuted in 2010 was a stepping stone that showed the company had more to offer than a ten-year warranty on the powertrain. Kia was hot on Hyundai’s heels with the sleek looking Optima. Suddenly, the two were seeing sales jump and nipping at the heels of the competition, especially from the Japanese makes.
And it continued for virtually every car to come out of South Korea. Optimas, Sportages, Fortes, Elantras, Velosters, Souls, the Stinger, and of course, the Genesis brand. It was almost like the two companies discovered the ability to style cars to the point of no return.
But it is not all about looks. Although Hyundai and Kia continue to rank at the top in initial quality testing, they fall subpar when it comes to years-long ownership. Apparently, faults appear the longer you use the cars.
This is obviously anecdotal, I can count in double digits how many five-year-old Hyundai Sonatas and Elantras are on the road without working brake lights. Often enough, whenever I look up a Hyundai or KIafor sale, there are paint chips, peeling steering wheels, and engine rebuilds noted in vehicle history reports despite having only 80-90k miles.
To be fair, both Kia and Hyundai are capable of delivering an interior that will contend with BMW. Where they continue to falter is the inability to keep up their first impressions. There’s still the Kia stereotype that no matter how good the car is, someone will say, “It’s still a Kia.”
That’s why even today, I’m skeptical of cars such as the award-winning Kia Telluride. The number of accolades it has won mixed with the level of demand in today’s car market is astonishing for the Telluride. Used examples are appreciating for almost double their original MSRP.
Kia still offers the ten-year warranty with the Telluride, which is enough to set off a mental alarm bell. Does it not have enough faith in the Telluride to last long term? After all, it is a family SUV that will spend a lot of time contending with carloads full of children and cheerios. Parents won’t be happy if they’re suddenly stranded with a breakdown. At that moment, the number of awards won is moot.
On the other hand, Kia could have faith, while acknowledging a long warranty is a powerful selling point.
It’s important to style a car correctly. It’s also important to make sure that the car won’t break on you less than a year after purchase. When American vehicle loan debt is in the trillions of dollars, the last thing you want is more financial trouble. Perhaps that’s why in spite of the new car demand, the average age of an owned car in the United States is now 13 years old.
Kia and Hyundai getting the style of automobiles right; it’s the substance that needs further refinement. But the tide may be turning for the better.
In the ever-growing market of EVs, the Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5 are just two of the most appealing options if you’re turned off by high gas prices. Critics have lauded both models for going toe to toe with Tesla’s take on an affordable EV.
More so, the Kia Telluride is the most successful Kia product launch in the United States. In addition to the high volume, it’s getting high marks for reliability now that it’s been around for a few years. Maybe because Kia has taken the opposite approach in vehicle development; less focus on style, more on substance. It remains to be seen if the electrical issues plaguing previous models will affect this one.
And I say again, the level of commitment to interior design and technology is astonishing, especially today. I mean, this is a modern Kia interior:
One complaint that remains common is that most Kias and Hyundais aren’t all that exciting to drive. Nonetheless, the most recent models show promise, especially if improved reliability can match improved styling.
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“Apparently, faults appear the longer you use the cars”
That’s a statistical certainty with any product.
It’s curious that you perceive a 10/100 warranty as merely a faux selling tool. H/K would go broke if the product couldn’t match the warranty, as Chrysler nearly did with the 7/70 back in the 80s.
I find it curious that competitors *refuse* to offer such a warranty.
As for the Tucson, I like every angle of it, inside and out.
-SCE (H/K fanboy since 2010)
That struck me too: “Kia still offers the ten-year warranty with the Telluride, which is enough to set off a mental alarm bell. Does it not have enough faith in the Telluride to last long term?”
By that logic, should they reduce the warranty to one year and 10,000 miles to show their faith in it?
That screamed to me “salesman for another brand.” Like, you walk into a Toyota dealership, you ask the dealer “Why don’t you guys offer a 10-year warranty like Kia does?” and he says “Oh, they only offer that because the car is junk. _We_ give you a 3-year warranty because we _believe in_ our cars.”
“I find it curious that competitors *refure* to offer such a warranty.”
Mitsubishi offers: 6 yr/100k miles bumper to bumper and 10 yr/100k mile power train, so there is that.
I await the forthcoming Mitsubishi flames.
I had to jump through enough hoops to try and use that warranty the one time that I really needed it that I just purchased a new car from another automaker. For the record, our 07 was a solid if unremarkable transportation appliance. the 17 that replaced it was junk.
When the tranny in my daughter’s Kia bought the farm at 50K miles, Kia warranteed it, no muss, no fuss. I’m not a huge fan, but their warranty is for real.
Since 2004 my family has purchased 18 Hyundais and guess what NON REQUIRED warranty work only for standard maintenance items. WOW I’m so disappointed that I could not use that 10 year 100K warranty
– “H/K would go broke if the product couldn’t match the warranty, as Chrysler nearly did with the 7/70 back in the 80s.
I find it curious that competitors *refuse* to offer such a warranty.”
Ford is still going through that as they admitted the need to improve quality/reliability to get a better handle of their warranty expenditure, and GM cut their warranty period after previously having increased it.
H/K pretty much don’t offer 10/100 warranty anywhere else and only hold onto it here for the marketing angle.
In Australia, Hyundai’s warranty period is the same as for Toyota and Honda (5 yrs), with Kia’s being 7 yrs (Mitsu is at 10 yrs).
But Honda has offered specials, from time to time, where they have increased the warranty period to 7 yrs.
I would suggest that when an auto manufacturer offers a longer warranty it is because they have more confidence in the long term reliability of their products.
If they expected a large number of warranty claims, then they either would not or could not offer the longer warranty.
As for Kia offering more for less. Well those days appear to be gone. Our 2009 Kia offered as standard equipment features such as Bluetooth, heated seats, adjustable rear console heat ducts/controls,’active’ head restraints, air curtains, stability control, traction control, 6 way adjustable seats, tilt/reclining back seats, 60/40 flat fold back seats, fog lights, dual lighting vanity mirrors on the visors, and roof rails. Many of these were unavailable or optional extras on luxury/near luxury vehicles of the same year. It also came with a ‘fold out’ purse hanger on the front passenger instrument panel, and ‘scallops’ on the underside of the side view mirrors to disrupt the wind and prevent ‘whistling’. Extras that I have not seen on any other car.
We are currently looking at replacing it with another Kia. Nicely equipped for the front seat passengers but something of a ‘penalty box’ in the back seat. With fixed head rests, no centre console, no heat/AC vents and the back seats do not fold flat.
The only way to know that is to find out how much of the new vehicle price was the money to service the warranty in the future. That figure is always included in the pricing. If the included amount was low they expect it to be reliable.
@Arthur – 100% correct regarding warranty length. That explains VW’s drastic reduction in warranty length in both years and miles. Their warranty repair claims had to be unreal after year 3.
The thing with Hyundai and Kia is the corners are cut where you cannot see them. I rememeber SavageGeese did a test of the Telluride, and found the suspension components and shocks were utter crap quality- like 5 cent pieces. The tuning will disguise it to a point on the test drive but you’ll know the difference once say, the weather gets cold. I think their conclusion was its barely worth the asking price, let alone the inflated MSRP.
The other thing is, well, the sketchy dealers.
That explains why H/K’s sales drop off in the winter.
“…the corners are cut where you cannot see them.”
Yeah, like inside of the engine block though you will get to see them when they exit the block.
Been saying the same thing that bkojote said for a long time. H/K/G is excellent in getting their vehicles just good enough. However in reviews and personal rentals, they fall flat on the vehicle’s feel and dynamics. The interiors do look good, but somewhat copycat and cheap materials. A lot of people are fans of their styling, although their recent designs are REALLY overstyled and I can imagine will age badly. But they just can’t take it to the finish line with class leaders. It’s easy to compete on price when you are as large as they are. Look at stores like WalMart and Target. But if you enjoy driving and want something that feels sorted out (Stinger is the exception), this won’t work for you.
I compare a lot of their designs to the fake Rolex found in overseas markets and likely back alleys of New York City. There are plenty of people who don’t care about the function and longevity. They want the look and style above anything else. And there are plenty of buyers out there who don’t care about taut handling, refine steering and suspension, and brake lights that will die after 4 years. (And the vast majority of what I see with dead head and tail lights are H/K products.) And for that, have at it.
Well, C/D praised their long-term Telluride for its composed ride/damping even after putting a hard 40k miles on it, which played a part in the Telluride repeating on their 10Best list.
The SX/SXL trim uses Sachs shocks, with the other trims using simpler, less expensive Mando shocks, but some have liked the ride better with the Mando shocks.
C/D places more of a premium on handling than the other major auto pubs like MT.
There are way more H/K models listed on their Editors’ Choice list than Hondas, and especially Toyotas.
The thing with Hyundai and Kia is the corners are cut where you cannot see them. I rememeber SavageGeese did a test of the Telluride, and found the suspension components and shocks were utter crap quality- like 5 cent pieces. The tuning will disguise it to a point on the test drive but you’ll know the difference once say, the weather gets cold. I think their conclusion was its barely worth the asking price, let alone the inflated MSRP.
The other thing is, well, the sketchy dealers.
This explains why H/K sales plummet in the winter.
Imagine the payouts if BMW offered such a long warranty. I am half convinced that the Germans are so good at building vehicles they are engineered to fail right after the warranty period is up. I know our VW Passat worked that way.
While some H/K styling as been questionable I like their daring approach. I find their interiors are very well done, to the point that I actively seek them out in the rental lot on business trips. They remind of older Hondas – no fuss, to the point, clean and simple. I can quickly figure out how everything works in H/K vehicle, all the switch gear seems well positioned and feels fine. They certainly don’t feel “cheap” inside.
To add excitement they really need a sports car, right now the nearest thing they have is Veloster N. I don’t count the Stinger because its a four door. Wish they made a coupe of some kind but CUVs rule so that is a majority of their lineup (like other OEMs).
This fall I’ll put my money where my mouth is and get a Santa Cruz to replace my ancient Dodge Dakota. My parents had a Sonata and several co-workers have had H/K products and I’ve never heard a complaint. One had a loaded Optima that they beat senseless and this was one of the models that had a engine recall. They racked up so many miles it was out of warranty so they traded it in at the first sign of engine trouble… they sure got their money’s worth out of it.
“I know our VW Passat worked that way.” Same with my 02 Passat V6. It was burning a quart every 1000 miles at 30k miles. After all the other issues with it, I decided I wouldn’t be able to afford it after the 3/36 warranty expired. Traded ASAP.
Good luck finding a Santa Cruz. Hyundai can’t build enough of them.
As for the 2.0T/2.4 engine recall, I think H/K eventually provided a lifetime warranty on existing engines. That engine thing was a bad mistake on them.
“Good luck finding a Santa Cruz. Hyundai can’t build enough of them.”
For sure. I’ve found a few… the real problem is the slime-ball dealers.
Yet my 99 Passat went 180K miles with only a grand spent in repairs over 10 years.
“ Kia still offers the ten-year warranty with the Telluride, which is enough to set off a mental alarm bell. Does it not have enough faith in the Telluride to last long term?”
If offering one of the best warrantys industry is indicative that a product may not last, what are your thoughts on brands offering warrantys that are half or a third as long?
It’s obviously double the quality. They pass the savings on to you!
The styling has been incredibly hit or miss. The Telluride and Palisade were hits, the K5 and Sonata pretty good, the Sorento a cheap knockoff of the MDX, the Forte forgettable, and the Kona, Seltos, and Elantra unbelievably awful.
Beyond looks, the products have been getting better. Interior material quality and atmosphere is now on par with the other mass brands. Suspension and steering have always been the H/K weakness but have improved enough that the average driver won’t notice the difference.
YMMV, but the quality on my Stinger has been fine over 4 years. My biggest complaint is that the brake components were chosen for low noise/dust rather than performance and I had to go to the aftermarket to fix that. If it had a Tau engine I’d probably keep it long term.
“My biggest complaint is that the brake components were chosen for low noise/dust rather than performance and I had to go to the aftermarket to fix that.”
Interesting you get the opposite thing in the Corvette community (I have C7 Z51). Most get rid of the aggressive factory pads for something that dusts less. I did the same and swapped to even better aftermarket pads for track days.
Agreed. I swap pads at the track. Good track pads sort of suck on the street.
I wasn’t really looking for “track pads” but the North American Stinger’s factory brakes aren’t even especially good for “spirited” driving. They also tend to leave deposits on the rotors which lead to vibrations.
Anyway, changing the brake pads to something more agressive was a major improvement to the car even if I have to wash the wheels occasionally.
Interesting, JM. I remember that my G8 GXP (Brembo front calipers) was also fitted with aggressive and very dusty pads from the factory. They performed great and I just dealt with the fact that if I’d driven more than 10 miles since cleaning the car my front wheels would have a dust haze.
Interesting comment on the brakes.
Oddly, the brake rotors were wearing funny on my new 19 Ioniq EV, developing a wide ring of rust at the outer edge.
So at 15k miles, I spent $200 and replaced all the rotors and pads with RockAuto stuff, and the problem went away. Now at 44k miles, they still look great.
For the cheap money, it wasn’t worth a dealer visit for them to tell me a) they’re just fine, or b) owners are responsible for wear items.
The dealer actually replaced my pads/rotors under warranty but with the same parts so the issue came back.
My other warranty repair was paint cracking on the roof-mounted antenna.
Like I said, my experience has been fine. I’m not going to get the Kia logo tattooed on my chest but I’m not going to warn people it’s a brand to avoid either.
What I have noticed during my ownership of multiple Kia-Hyundai vehicles is that the brake calipers have to be regularly lubricated/adjusted. The particularly have issues if the car is not driven regularly.
…and EVs all have that issue since the braking systems are used much less than ICEs because of regenerative braking.
I can’t find any used Telluride going for 2x MSRP that’s totally crazy. Resale value is high yes, this is a desirable vehicle, second only to the 911 GT3 non touring.
The Euro-spec pads for the Stinger are a lot better, but they also cost more $.
Interestingly enough, the Veloster-N uses regular HMG brake components (no supposed fancy stuff from Brembo), for instance, found on the Euro Optima and testers had a tough time getting them to fade after some hard laps on the track.
Cheap hit piece of the week. Nice that the author admitted to selling a competing marque, because if he hadn’t that would have been my first question when I reached the end. Ok, I’ll throw some anecdotal crap at you: I, or my wife, have owned three Kia’s over the past thirty years, my current one has been around for the last ten. Quite happy with all three, they’re at least as good as the best of anything else I’ve owned in 49 years of car ownership. And the brand is at the top of my consideration list when it comes to my next car. Especially since the next purchase will be our second EV.
In my opinion the H-K models are overstyled and not in a good way. It seems the exteriors have too many gaudy plastic pieces. The interiors look modern but to me unattractive. I never thought the Telluride was good looking. In addition unfortunately the mechanical components seem to fail prematurely on a regular basis with numerous reports on the intenet of oil burning engines and failure after a few years. Also remember that the 10 year warranty only applies for the orininal owner. Subsequent 2nd and 3rd owners find out after they fail.
2nd owners get 5/60, which is better than many others’ new warranties.
“they fall subpar when it comes to years-long ownership.” – Almost every European car… ever.
As “Dung Beetle” I must also agree with those who feel the author ‘stepped in it’ citing the 10/100 warranty as a lack of faith, and also agree with others that you simply don’t do that if you think the claims are going to clean out the corporate bank account.
I wouldn’t buy any Hyundai or Kia product.
A friend wants a loaded G70 3.3t and I don’t know what to tell him when he asks for my opinion. It looks and drives great and if you skip the option packages, it’s a legit deal ($46k rwd 3.3t) but once you equip it like its competitors, it costs the same or more ($57k). Drove it back to back with a TLX Type S and there’s no doubt that the Genesis was more responsive with a better interior design but I’d personally sleep better at night spending $55k on an Acura than a Korean car.
@AK: based on what objective criteria? Reliability and customer satisfaction reports? Nope Genesis/Hyundai/Kia are competitive on these. Based on performance? Nope, also competitive. Based on styling? Well that is subjective.
I too have had primarily good experiences with Honda products. But pound for pound and dollar for dollar, out of all the vehicles that I have owned/operated a Kia has been the ‘best’.
The Kona is my 12th Hyundai as I’ve been leasing cars the last 4yrs. The 2 Elantras I had before had steering issues as the wheel always pulled to the left. I’m finding the same issue with my 2022 Kona that I leased June,2021 and now has 3700 miles. I took the car in for maintenance 3mos ago and they did an alignment. I took my car back for maintenance and it still pulls to the left. When my suv was ready I was given a bill of $99 and refused to pat. I was accused of driving in to curbs etc but I haven’t. The service advisor didn’t tell me there would be a charge for the alignment. I spoke with the service manager who was extremely nasty as I told him I refuse to pay the bill. He became very angry saying that I will definitely pay next time and I feel threatened by him. I reported this on Hyundais service questionnaire but haven’t heard anything from them. After having 12 Hyundais from this dealership, I feel they don’t care how customers are spoken to as I’m a 70-yr old female. Atvthis time, I don’t plan on buying or leasing any Hyundais in the future.
This website is going to the dogs.
I find the SUVs from both Kia and Hyundai look great. The Optima and forte look good, but the Sonata and elantra are pretty overstyled.
Hyundai Kia is the automotive equivalent of the “fast fashion” trend. Looks great for a couple of washes and then falls apart. Not to mention frequent and drastic redesigns affect resale value.
Again based on what criteria? Kia/Hyundai are fully competitive in regards to short and long term reliability reports.
Don’t bring Depeche Mode into this
How did this article make it past Tim’s desk? lol.
“Kia still offers the ten-year warranty with the Telluride, which is enough to set off a mental alarm bell. Does it not have enough faith in the Telluride to last long term? ”
Yeah it’s an opinion piece but this is a logic black hole. Tyler, c’mon, forgetting whatever koolaid you were given as part of the sales training, this can’t make any sense to you. This nonsense is why people hate dealerships. BS gaslighting.
You know a product is high quality when the manufacturer refuses to stand behind it.
What would Bertel S. have said of this?
I don’t know if I’m the rule or the exception. All I know is that my 2015 Sonata Limited has been bulletproof. 94,000+ miles, and my Hyundai service manager says that he would expect it, at a minimum, to go another 50,000+. I do get it serviced regularly, so that might be part of it. But it has easily been the best car I’ve ever had (I had 4 Accords and 2 Camrys). I wouldn’t hesitate to pull the trigger on another Hyundai, if the vehicle met my particular needs. My two cents worth.
Can we all just agree that- while most of the H/K vehicles look fantastic, the Venue is something that looks like it was lifted from the shores of India or Pakistan and someone said “screw it, send it to the US, too.” It makes the EcoSport look fashionable and classy!
Oh, and this publication didn’t go exactly as planned, we can all tell. I knew within the first paragraph that this was going to be an interesting comment section. Fart, meet church.
No we can’t agree because I don’t think their cars, any of their cars, are fantastic.
This reads like a hit piece on Hyundai/Kia, but even if that wasn’t the intention (despite a major conflict of interest), it’s an OPINION piece that is outdated and devoid of facts/data (TTAC should be ashamed that they published something like this).
While every automaker has had its major issues – H/K with its 2.0 engine, Honda with its prematurely imploding 6 spd transmission, Nissan with its CVT transmission, Toyota with its engine oil sludge probkem, etc. – over the past decade or so, H/K have faired better in the CR and JD Power long term reliability surveys (as well as overseas reliability reports in the UK and Germany) than Honda and Nissan.
Honda (and even more so, Acura) took a deep dive in reliability (not surprisingly) when they brought to the market new powertrains (Honda’a Achilles’ heel seems to be transmission, albeit one of the more problematic transmissions for them was the ZF9 unit.
Honda has been working its way back up the reliability rankings as they work the kinks out.
Likewise, Hyundai took a hit with their dry DCT.
Point is, reliability often fluctuates when automakers bring new components to market.
Toyota manages to stay near the top of such rankings because they hold on to powertrains seemingly forever, like their vaunted V6 (which did have its issues at the start according to CR).
While that’s great for reliability (reason why brands like Dodge and Buick are up in the rankings), it also means falling behind when it comes to performance (while, which may not be so important to the typical Toyota buyer, is important to buyers of the Lexus RWD sedans – leading to their drastic decline in sales).
And when Toyota/Lexus did finally jump on the turbo bandwagon, they try to keep problems low by limiting power (and hence stress on the engines), such as the rather anemic 2.0T in the IS.
Even this doesn’t guarantee being free of problems- as Toyota had to recall almost every vehicle they made within a period of years due to a faulty fuel pump.
The reason why the Telluride has been reliable (most reliable in its segment according to CR)?
It uses a tried and true powertrain combo (the 3.8L V6 and 8 spd AT).
As for the complaint that “most Kias and Hyundais aren’t all that exciting to drive…”, well neither are most Toyotas, Nissan and yes, Hondas (aside from the Civic and Accord everything else in Honda’s lineup is an appliance).
And Hyundai has the N and Kia, the GT.
While the CTR is the ultimate FWD track weapon, many auto scribes have stated that the i30N or Veloster-N (soon to be departed) are actually more FUN to drive, with the Veloster-N and the i20N both winning major Performance CotY awards.
While mostly don’t have a major issue with the Tucson’s design (altho, prefer the similar,but more rugged grille/headlight design of the Santa Cruz, the front clip of the new Sportage is a non-starter for me, but polarizing designs haven’t stopped sales before (look at the entire FWD Lexus lineup with the “Predator maw”).
Over in Europe,the Qashqai was far and away the best selling Asian midsize (compact here) CUV.
Now, both the Tucson and Sportage outsell the Qashqai in most of the major European markets, with both far outstripping RAV4 sales and leaving the CR-V on life support (Honda has basically become a non-entity in the European market aside from maybe the UK).
Having something instantly recognizable (or not looking like anything else) in the sea of CamCords (or rather these days, Highlanders and Pilots) has its merits.
Plus, there is another rationale for this.
Going forward, HMG will not be doing material cosmetic changes for its refreshes, which instead, will mostly be OTA updates.
So the author is complaining that Kia/Hyundai is spending money on restyling their cars and giving customers extra warranty. That sound like a bad deal all around deal to me. Especially if you are selling another brand’s bland vehicles with predicted failure after the 3 year warranty is over. I keep reading on how one will buy an Acura instead of Genesis but Acura has veered far from being a reliable brand.
Here come all the H/K fanboys to defend their beloved brands. H/K fanboys are some of the most irritating people. Just as bad as Subaru. They put these cars on pedestals and bow down to them when in reality there is nothing overly special about them.
Have you spoken to a Teslarati lately?
I’d chat with some annoying old Harley guy with no less than 15 pieces of H-D paraphernalia over that smug rich trash ilk.
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